next »

CatholiChat

Bible

Catechism

Catholic Encyclopedia

Today's Readings

Advanced search

[priestess82]

I was thinking the other day, watching some kids argue, fuss and fight. Since the world was created perfect and was marred by the stain of sin because of Adam, isn't it possible that our sexuality was harmed as well? Many people are born with all kinds of problems because of our fallen nature, why not our sexuality as well? It doesn't mean that we cannot overcome alll kinds of things, including our fallen nature. I'm not adovating the gay lifestyle but just questioning.

[Bruno]

Because of our fallen nature due to Original Sin we are tempted and attracted towards sin.  God allows evil so that our free will can overcome it and hence be a source of Grace.

One is not "born gay".  God did not create anybody with the genetic code to be homosexual any more than to be a thief, murderer, glutton, dope addic, etc. Sure he allows us to be tempted by all kinds of sin so that we can overcome them.

During an Ignatian Retreat for men, Father made the following point:

"Those who won't control their animal tendencies are the ones who are frail (not the other way around).  It takes manly strength to do what is right, to keep oneself under control and to have the courage  to ignore those who try  to tempt the strong to be as weak as they are.  A 'real man' will control himself and love his family enough to be their spiritual leader and guide and teach his family  by a good example, instead of a bad one. We have an immortal soul that needs to be cared for."

We do no favor to those addicted to homosexuallity by letting them believe they have no control over this evil because they were created that way.  Yes we have temptations but God does not allow us to be tempted without also giving us the necessary Grace to resist it.

God Bless,
Bruno

[Maria]

Okay so I have a question, how do we as catholics deal with people who are gay. Especially with when you have children who go to school with a person or persons who are in fact claim to be gay. I myself have no friends who are gay and if I did; as far as faith goes I wouldn't no how to deal with it. Also the media, news, shows on tv are just plastered with it. I would think that you would have to treat it with the love God (love thy neighbor). What do you do???

[priestess82]

We're supposed to love the sinner and hate the sin. My teens have several friends who are gay and have embraced the gay lifestyle, doing same sex dating and same sex sexual behavior. When they bring this up to me and ask if the Church condemns these people for whom they love, I remind them that the only acceptable sexual behavior is that within marriage, between a man and woman. If they are unhappy with this answer, we discuss what is the purpose of sex (babies & bonding) and that the two cannot be separated. Then we discuss what happens with two men or two women who attempt to have babies & bonding. It is impossible since the systems do not work that way. Finally I remind them that sometimes we are given a cross to bear that brings us closer to Jesus, even if we do not know why we are given such a painful load to bear. I know it's not the answer they or their friends want to hear but I cannot escape the truth.

I am acquainted with a few gay people but their lifestyle and sexual behavior has never been a topic of our discussions. I hope to be blessed with wisdom (which I pray for daily) if I must enter into a discussion. I cannot refute the truth but I see no reason to destroy a person either. Jesus treated all with love and compassion while never condoning sin. I hope to handle the situation  as He would.

[Maria]

This has always been a subject that was of conflict only because at first, before returning to the church I didn't take a stance on this issue because when not familiar with certain or other teachings of the church; I was just on the fence because I didn't what my opinion of  it should be. Of course I do side with the teachings of the church now. My oldest has a friend in school who is gay. So she was talking about him and I ask her what she thought about it. She said she knew it was wrong even though they are friends she didn't support that lifestyle. I think for her do to the fact that I'm very religious, that it was just common sense that it was morally wrong. I haven't had any moments where I've had to deal with the issue but at least if it ever does come in the future; that I'll be hopefully prepared. I do believe that we have the responsibility to protect the santicty of marriage. I think that is important that marriage is between a man and a women. I think its important for children need to know the importance of that

[Bruno]

Love the sinner - hate the sin is of course very true. We cannot convert anybody if we refuse to talk to them. Hence, befriend those who are in need (particularly spiritual need).

We can't however come on too strong or we will just drive them away.  Be firm but gentle. Often the sting of unwanted criticisms will be lessened when delivered with smile and kindness instead of harshness. Sometimes telling them about one of our own faults and expressing out need to hurry to the Sacrament of Confession because of them, may spark an examination of their own conscience. A realistic fear of Hell is a great motivator.

First of all however, we must strive to increase our own Sanctity (so that our prayers for them will be more effective) Hard hearts can only be softened by prayer - may take years. If prayers are answered too quickly we may stop doing them or reduce our fervor. :-) Often God tests our perserverence.

God Bless,
Bruno

[priestess82]

I find this to be one of the most difficult issues to discuss with teens and young adults today, even more so than abortion. Abortion has pictures which show the true nature of the beast. Homosexuality on the other hand, doesn't really seem to have a downside in popular media. Gay characters are happy, wealthy, well established and having much better sex than married characters in movies and TV. College kids have been fed the line it's about love and relationships and who gets to decide who you love. I pray for wisdom every time I have to engage in this conversation with my teens and their friends. I wish the media would tell the truth but the truth doesn't sell.

[E James]

priestess82:   Your idea sounds more possible than most guesses I hear.

[priestess82]

E James, I really don't have a good way to engage this conversation outside of catholic circles. As a CCD teacher and pastoral coordinator, it's easy to teach what the Church teaches and argue from a common thread. I have lots of problems discussing this matter outside of catholic circles and encounter much hatred, bigotry and misinterpretation of my words. I have found with this issue, only one side counts: positive view of homosexuality. Anything else is almost criminal. I make no headway with my college student daughter who was raised catholic her entire life. She has issues with the Church dictating that someone can't love someone else and what business does the Church have in people's bedrooms. She knows people who actively practice same-sex sexual behavior and she finds it very disturbing, disgusting and revolting yet feels that she has no "right" to judge other people. Keep my in your prayers as I struggle with this difficult issue.

[E James]

Hi priestess82:  I can't totallly disagree with your daughter.  I can understand the position of the Church and the Church is in the business of morals, but I can relate to what I think she is saying about relationships and the bedroom.   I am in agreement with her on it being disturbing, disgusting and revolting yet feels she has no right to judge other people.   I can judge the action as disgusting, but I can't judge the person as disgusting.  As I said your idea makes as much sense as any I've heard.  The true homosexual probably finds the actions of heterosexuals as disgusting as I find their actions.  So what do I do?  Sounds like the same as your daughter.  I treat them as individuals.  They are involved in all vocations and activities.  They're people with hopes and dreams.  They feel the same pain.  They laugh and cry.  I can understand the Church' position and why.  I can also understand the desire for a relationship and someone to grow old with.
     As for the hatred and such:  Yes much exists, but there are many with your views.  And yes I'll keep you in my prayers. 

[Dean MacKinnon-Thomson]

You cannot be born homosexual. This is fact, because His Holiness has decreed it. He is infallible, so I believe this is the proper starting point for any discussion; the recognition that Homosexuality is a choice like any other.

So thus, this being true, it logically concludes that people whom choose this 'alternate life choice' will be defying His will. This is sin and we must attempt to save these people who choose to live as homosexuals in order that they may find their way to heaven. But remember St. Augustine's message: 'Love is the highest goal of our faith' so we must not hate them, but pity them, for they shall not know Gods love everlasting joy.

Smile Jesus Loves You.

Dean (newbie from Scotland, UK)

[Amy]

I would like to read that document where the Pope decreed that people cannot be born gay; can you provide me w/ that info? Also, it is important to note that the Pope's infallibility only extends to teachings of faith/dogma and only under certain conditions... I'm not exactly sure what those conditions are. But, are you sure this "born gay decree" truly was said under Popal infallibility???

[Terence IRL]

The Pope is infallible in all matters relating to Faith and Morals. What The Pope said is based on the infallibility of the moral teachings of Christ. Since those are established Teachings, his procnouncement does not need to be made ex-cathedra.

[Amy]

The Pope is infallible in all matters relating to Faith and Morals. What The Pope said is based on the infallibility of the moral teachings of Christ. Since those are established Teachings, his procnouncement does not need to be made ex-cathedra.

Thank you for clearing that up. I still would like to read/ hear the entire context the Pope said that individuals are not born gay so if you have information on that it would be most appreciated.

[cajunlandr]

The born gay proclamation by those in the pro-active homosexual movement is an attempt to "seal the deal" that there is no moral culpability to there lifestyle.
Therefore no sin. There is no conclusive evidence that people are born homosexual. I choose to not use the word "gay" because those that I know who live this lifestyle are not truly gay; meaning happy, joyous. They may portray it outwardly but inside they are in constant turmoil. I know because I once was one.