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Rich
Monday, April 30, 2001 - 01:37 pm
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The title of Co-Redemptrix to Mary, strikes either fear or resentment in the hearts of many converts to Catholicism. Most Catholics know fully well that Jesus is the only Redeemer. They also know that it is optional to have devotion to Our Blessed Mother. However their reluctance to pray to her is both understandable and at the same time, in my opinion unfortunate.

Mary's purpose, like that of the Saints and Angels, is not to take power from Jesus, but to give glory to the Holy Trinity, and bring souls to God. Through our prayers and petitions to her she offers them up directly to Jesus, at the same time interceding for us. In all her apparitions, she has done nothing but to bring people closer to her Son. The same can be said about the other Saints. The merits of the holy lives they led is incense to God. They are in heaven with Him. By modeling our lives after Mary or a Saint whom we admire or can identify with, we will go directly to heaven. They have sanctified themselves by their holy lives. By paterning our lives with any of theirs,we too can sanctify ourselves.

If we love Jesus so much, shouldn't we cultivate a love, respect and devotion for His Mother and friends? Are we to believe that they will take away our focus on Jesus? On the contrary, if we look at their writings and events of their lives, the messages in their apparitions, we only see that they want nothing more than to bring us closer to Jesus.

To those who say that Mary and the saints have no power to grant miracles or favors, I say, not so. By the fact that they are saints, means that they have had to perform at least two documented miracles before being recognized as saints. What we have to keep in mind is that these powers come ultimately from God as their source. The saints by themselves have no power. It is God who grants them these favors, because of the merits of their lives. You have to also remember that you will not receive what you ask from a saint if God does not will it. Everything comes from God.

I also have to say that if a person never prays to Mary or a Saint, that they are still perfect Catholics and can go to heaven, if they merit it, by their lives. But I don't understand this fear or reluctance if you will to also pray to the Saints and Mary. The Jews believed in praying both to and for the dead. So did the Early Christians. They (as do I) believed that the prayer and intercession of a righteous person has a powerful effect with God.

Martin Luther himself had a great devotion to Mary. It is only in modern times that we see this reluctance. To me it is hypocrasy to ask a friend, or relative, or for that matter a Church, a pastor or any group to pray for us and yet we do not seek out the prayers of those whom we believe to be in heaven with God.

I don't understand what there is to be afraid of.


sarah crohn
Tuesday, May 08, 2001 - 05:11 am
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Mary as Co.Redemptrix gives her message in all the many places of apparition around the world, asking us,sometimes even asking little children, to make sacrifices. What are these sacrifices? They are personal, self-sacrificial acts. A prayer is a sacrifice, the offering up of something is a sacrifice, the consecration of one's sufferings or of one's work are sacrifices. A fast is a sacriice. These acts are sacrifices because they are united with her Son, they are at one with the Cross and therefore incrue grace through Him, in and with Him, and as such are redemptive acts.
Mary is our human connection with Jesus, not mystically but simply because His Humanity comes to Him though her and so His redemptive Work of the Cross is extended to us through her. This is my understanding of her title Co-Redemptrix.


ce
Wednesday, May 09, 2001 - 12:38 pm
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I agree Rich that many new converts do not have the devotion to Mary that many cradle catholics do. This is unfortunate. As a convert I have found a great blessing in being able to talk to Mary and also to be given the gift of the holy Rosary. I can understand howere, why the problem with the marian devotion. I think that some Catholics would place too much emphasis on Mary such as the co-redeemtrix idea. There is like you said only on redeemer and that was Jesus Christ. No one but Him died on the cross for our sins. He did it alone. Another problem is that when a protestant hears the word pray they hear worship, because to them the two words are the same. if people were to use the words "talk to" or to ask for intercession this would make more sense to a protestants. Many protestants belive in intercessory prayer. We ask people to pray for us on a daily basis. I just use Mary and the rest of the saints as a heavenly prayer chain. presented in those terms I could understand and became more willing to talk to Mary as a friend as as an intercessor.
Another disturbing thing to a protestant is the use of her exclusively to go through rather than being able to go to her Son. It was explained to me in such terms that it worked. It was explained to me that I could go through Jesus to get to the Father but that I could also ask Mary to invene as well. You see the difference. She is not the exclusive path to Jesus and then to the Father but and enhancement to that path. I hope I made some sense.


Rich
Monday, May 14, 2001 - 08:58 am
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Sarah,

I was going to give a long explanation citing Marian Theology, but I think you said it more concisely and said it best. However, I will do so in my reply to Ce, below.

Rich


Rich
Monday, May 14, 2001 - 10:56 am
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Ce,

Thank you for making the point about to a Protestant prayer=worship. Us cradle Catholics too often forget this aspect when discussing our Faith with them. However, I am not so sure that their definition is so far from the truth. To me when you pray to a saint, you are praying to God indirectly through that saint, who petitions God on our behalf. Call it "talking , discussing, asking" or whatever, to me its all praying. The Catholic definition of prayer to my understanding is: "Lifting one's heart and mind up to God" If for one second, any self respecting Catholic thought they were worshiping a saint (Mary included) they would stop dead in their tracks, because we, like the Protestants, want to worship God and God alone and as you know are even forbidden by Canon Law from worshiping anyone but the Holy Trinity,(nor would we want to). And yes a Catholic who never prays to a saint or Mary is a perfectly good Catholic, like those who do.

Mary has been referred as the "New Eve". Just as sin entered the world through Eve, conversely, All Grace (Jesus) entered the world through Mary. However, her role of helping out in the salvation of mankind was unnecessary and totally inequal to the role Jesus played. God could have easily chosen to appear in the world at the age of 30 without an earthly mother. But the Father had different plans. Through His infinite, love, wisdom and mercy chose for His Son to be born of woman. By virtue of the great graces she obtained when giving her perfect yes to be the mother of God, and then her ascent to the crucifixion of her Son we are perfectly within reason when venerating, (as we do the saints) the choice God made as the mother of His Son. Jesus Himself was obedient to her throughout His life, specifically we see this at the 'Wedding of Cana'. This maternal love Mary has extended to the Church and all men, and continues for all time, as evidenced through her many apparitions. Pope John PaulII himself attributes the fact that he survived the assasination attempt on his life, which occurred several years ago, to the direct intervention of Mary. He recently wrote in part: "In the third secret of Fatima: "According to the interpretation of the 'little shepherds,' which was also recently confirmed by Sister Lucia, the 'Bishop clothed in white' who prays for all the faithful is the Pope. As he makes his way with great effort towards the Cross amid the corpses of those who were martyred (Bishops, priests, men and women religious and many lay persons), he too falls to the ground, apparently dead, under a burst of gunfire."

Sister Lucia said she fully agrees with John Paul II's later affirmation that "a maternal hand guided the bullet's trajectory when the agonizing Pope stood on the threshold of death."

To quote David Amstrong: "The sacrifice of Christ was solely efficacious; of course. But that doesn't rule out Mary's co-participation in the Redemption as a fundamentally lesser creature, by God's design. This is no novelty. All of us participate in our own salvation. Paul said work out your own salvation, etc. We can help others get saved by prayer and acts of mercy, etc."

Pope John Paul II in the document Redemptoris Mater, states in part when talking about Vatican II:

"For," the text goes on, "taken up to heaven, she did not lay aside this saving role, but by her manifold acts of intercession continues to win for us gifts of eternal salvation."[104] With this
character of "intercession," first manifested at Cana in Galilee, Mary's mediation continues in the history of the Church and the world. We read that Mary "by her maternal charity, cares for the brethren of her Son who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and difficulties, until they are led to their happy homeland."[105] In this way Mary's motherhood continues unceasingly in the Church as the mediation which intercedes, and the Church expresses her faith in this truth by invoking Mary "under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix and Mediatrix."[106]

41. Through her mediation, subordinate to that of the Redeemer, Mary contributes in a special way to the union of the pilgrim Church on earth with the eschatological and heavenly reality of the Communion of Saints, since she has already been "assumed into heaven."[107] The truth of the Assumption, defined by Pius XII, is reaffirmed by the Second Vatican Council, which thus expresses the Church's faith: "Preserved free from all guilt of original sin, the Immaculate Virgin was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory upon the completion of her earthly sojourn. She was exalted by the Lord as Queen of the Universe, in order that she might be the more thoroughly conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords (cf. Rev. 19:16) and the conqueror of sin and death."[108] In this teaching Pius XII was in continuity with Tradition, which has found many different expressions in the history of the Church, both in the East and in the West". (please read the whole document, it is enlightening)

In essence Pope John Paul II teaches and believes in Mary as Co-Redemptrix as have several past popes and Saint Bernard, who referred to Jesus as the head of the Body and Mary is the neck thorough which all graces come to man from Jesus.

Lastly the title of Co-Redemptrix is not official. There are about 4 million Catholics trying to get John Paul II to define this title. However you probably won't see it happen soon, if ever because the title can easily be misconstrued as the deification of Mary which is simply not the case,(no one wants that) but some within and outside the Church mistakenly consider the title as such. The sacrificial act of Jesus was in itself completely sufficient for the salvation of mankind. Mary's act was subordinate, unnecessary, inequal and completely insufficient. But Mary's conscious, active participation in the salvation history of mankind cannot be denied.

For further reading, understanding and study, I refer you to the website: Biblical Evidence For Catholicism I also invite you to read about the accolades this website has received from both within the Catholic Commmunity, and especially those from the Protestant Community. Dave Armstrong explains the theory much better than I can. Few could argue with any of his statements.

Rich

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sue
Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 10:41 am
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I don't believe that Mary should have the Title of Co-Redemptrix! She is not our Savior and she is NOT GOD! If the Catholic Church gives her this title, this is a direct contradiction of God and the Bible. Jesus died to save our sins and his mothers. St. Mary did not die for our sins. I do honor St. Mary, but she is human. I also beleive that she did sin in lifetime, because she was human..... I don't like when people try to elevate her as the same level as GOD. I do feel that the special thing about Mary in the first place is that she is human, and chose to accept God, and believed with her own free-will. I feel that I don't have to pray to St. Mary to ask God for help. The first 10 Commandments say You should have No Gods besides me. Saying that St. Mary is equal to Jesus is saying she is a God too. This is wrong. I tend to agree with the Protestants on this belief. Has the Pope ever said that these Apparitions were true? I thought the Church's position on the alleged Apparitions was that they didn't deny them or confirm them. Jesus is my Savior, not St. Mary. I do respect and honor her, but NOT on the same level as Jesus. If people see St. Mary as the same level as Jesus, this takes away devotion and honor from Jesus. Jesus should be given all the Glory, Honor, prayer, and respect from Humans. To Hold his Mother as a Divine Part of God is not right. Jesus said himself that you should only pray to his Father.


Christina (Chrissy)
Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 11:48 am
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Sue, you may want to read this. It may help you to understand a little better. God bless

http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ36.HTM


sue
Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 04:23 pm
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Thanks Chrissy. I will read it real soon. Would you please answer my post over on the General Discussion Board? I would love to hear your views and opinions, and beliefs. You seem to know your religion very well. Also, I responded to you below about The Immaculate Conception. Thanks again....


sue
Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 04:39 pm
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Hi Chrissy. I just read it. Although it does give detailed information (some of it new to me) I still don't believe that she should be classified as co/redeemer with Christ. I have a question for you. Does the Catholic Church teach that St. Mary never had intercourse with her husband Joseph? If so, why do they feel that is the truth? What would be wrong with having intercourse with your husband? It is a natural human behavior that God created.....


Christina (Chrissy)
Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 05:41 pm
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Hi Sue. I beleive this will answer your question about Joseph. http://www.catholic.com/library/Mary_Ever_Virgin.asp

Here is some more reading on the Blessed Virgin Mary. http://www.catholic.com/library/mary_saints.asp


sue
Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 08:58 pm
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I believe that Mary was a virgin when she had Jesus, because that is said many times in the Bible. Where does it say in the Bible that after Jesus's death Mary was still a virgin? Thank you for answering my questions. I appreciate it.


Marv
Monday, March 11, 2002 - 06:31 pm
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Hello sue, there is evidence in scripture to support the belief that Mary and Joseph led a celibate life as man and wife. When the angel Gabriel announced to Mary that she would have a son, her response was how can this be ? Normaly a woman preparing for a marriage consummated by intercourse would have replied; great! I didn't know it would be a boy ! The fact that she wondered how it would be possible may imply that a vow of celibacy had already been made. Remember Jesus said there is no marriage in heaven because in heaven there is no death. In other words we reproduce our kind because we die. The celibate life is a sign of an eternal life here on earth. Also Mary taught her faith to Jesus as a child and much of Jesus's teaching was founded on the teaching He recieved from her. Jewish children of the time were taught the faith by their mothers before the formation of the child was handed over to the father. I suggest that Jesus was witnessed to about marriage from His very holy parents who taught Him the value of celibacy.


Anonymous
Saturday, March 23, 2002 - 02:35 am
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I am pretty sure that in jewish tradition, there was to be a period of about a year when the newly weds were not to conumate their marriage, and if consumation did occur it was strongly looked down upon.

If anyone wants to check that out I think it would also provide more evidence of a virgin birth by Mary.


mary cournoyer
Tuesday, March 26, 2002 - 05:50 am
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The La Salette Secret

THREE FOURTHS OF FRANCE SHALL LOSE THE FAITH, AND THE OTHER FOURTH, THAT WILL PRESERVE IT, WILL PRACTICE IT WITH TEPIDITY. PEACE SHALL NOT BE GIVEN TO THE WORLD UNTIL MEN WILL BE CONVERTED. A PROTESTANT NATION IN THE NORTH SHALL BE CONVERTED TO THE FAITH, AND THROUGH THE MEANS OF THAT NATION, THE OTHER SHALL RETURN TO THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH. THE NEXT POPE SHALL NOT BE ROMAN. WHEN MEN SHALL BE CONVERTED, GOD WILL GIVE PEACE THE WORLD. AFTERWARDS, THIS PEACE SHALL BE DISTURBED BY THE MONSTER. THE MONSTER SHALL ARRIVE AT THE END OF THIS NINETEENTH CENTURY OR, AT LATEST, AT THE COMMENCEMENT OF THE TWENTIETH. IN THIS TIME THE ANTICHRIST WILL BE BORN OF A NUN OF HEBRAIC DESCENT, A FALSE VIRGIN, WHO WILL HAVE INTERCOURSE WITH THE ANCIENT SERPENT, WITH THE MASTER OF IMPURITY AND PUTREFACTION. HIS FATHER WILL BE A BISHOP. HE WILL PERFORM FALSE MIRACLES AND SUBSIST ONLY ON VITIATING FAITH. HE WILL HAVE BRETHREN WHO WILL BE CHILDREN OF EVIL BUT NOT INCARNATE DEVILS LIKE HIMSELF. HIS SOON THEY WILL BE AT THE HEAD OF ARMIES, SUPPORTED BY THE LEGIONS OF HELL.

UP, YE CHILDREN OF LIGHT, AND FIGHT! FOR BEHOLD, THE AGE OF AGES, THE END, THE EXTREMITY IS AT HAND! THE CHURCH PASSES INTO DARKNESS. THE WORLD WILL BE IN A STATE OF CONSTERNATION, PERPLEXITY AND CONFUSION. ON HENOCH AND ELIAS: THEY WILL SUDDENLY APPEAR ON EARTH FULL OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD, WHEN THE CHURCH BECOMES DARKENED AND THE WORLD IN TERRIBLE AGONY. THEY WILL CONVERT THOSE OF GOOD WILL AND COMFORT THE OPPRESSED CHRISTIANS. WITH THE HELP OF THE HOLY GHOST, THEY WILL HAVE GREAT SUCCESS AGAINST THE HERESIES OF THE ANTICHRIST. BUT IN THE END THEY WILL BE DELIVERED TO DEATH".

THE LADY SAID TO ME: "WHAT I TELL YOU NOW WILL NOT ALWAYS REMAIN A SECRET. YOU ARE ALLOWED TO PUBLISH IT AFTER THE YEAR 1858".
"THERE WILL BE A KIND OF FALSE PEACE BEFORE THE ADVENT OF ANTICHRIST. MAN'S ONLY THOUGHT WILL BE UPON DIVERSION AND AMUSEMENTS. THE WICKED WILL INDULGE IN ALL SORTS OF SIN, BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE HOLY CHURCH, THE CHILDREN OF THE FAITH, MY SINCERE FOLLOWERS, WILL WAX STRONG IN THE LOVE OF GOD AND IN THE VIRTUES THAT ARE DEAR TO ME. HAPPY THE HUMBLE SOULS THAT ARE GUIDED BY THE HOLY GHOST. I WILL FIGHT WITH THEM UNTIL THEY SHALL HAVE REACHED THE COMPLETION OF AGE.
ITALY WILL BE SEVERELY PUNISHED FOR HER EFFORTS TO SHAKE OFF THE YOKE OF THE MOST HIGH LORD. SHE WILL BECOME THE PLAY-BALL OF WAR. ON EVERY SIDE BLOOD WILL FLOW. THE TEMPLES WILL EITHER BE CLOSED OR DESECRATED. PRIESTS AND MEMBERS OF RELIGIOUS ORDERS WILL BE PUT TO FLIGHT. THEY WILL BE BEATEN TO DEATH AND OTHERWISE DIE CRUEL DEATHS.

THE VICAR OF MY SON WILL BE COMPELLED TO SUFFER MUCH BECAUSE FOR A TIME THE CHURCH WILL BE DELIVERED TO GREAT PERSECUTIONS. THAT WILL BE THE HOUR OF DARKNESS, AND THE CHURCH WILL EXPERIENCE A FRIGHTFUL CRISIS. THE POWERFUL OFFICIALS OF THE STATE AND THE CHURCH WILL BE SUPPRESSED AND DONE AWAY WITH, AND ALL LAW AND ORDER AS WELL AS JUSTICE. THERE WILL BE MURDER, HATE ENVY AND DECEIT, WITH NO LOVE OR REGARD FOR ONE'S COUNTRY OF FAMILY.

GOD IS GOING TO PUNISH IN A MANNER WITHOUT EXAMPLE. WOE TO THE INHABITANTS OF THE EARTH! GOD IS GOING TO EXHAUST HIS WRATH, AND NOBODY SHALL BE ABLE TO EVADE SO MANY COMBINED EVILS. AT THE FIRST STROKE OF HIS FULMINATING SWORD THE MOUNTAINS AND THE WHOLE OF NATURE SHALL SHAKE WITH TERROR, BECAUSE THE DISORDERS AND CRIMES OF MEN PIERCE THE VERY VAULTS OF THE HEAVENS. THE EARTH SHALL BE STRICKEN WITH EVERY KIND OF PLAGUES. (BESIDES THE PESTILENCE AND FAMINE, WHICH SHALL BE GENERAL.) THERE SHALL BE WARS UNTIL THE LAST WAR, WHICH SHALL BE WAGED BY THE TEN KINGS OF ANTICHRIST. ALL THESE KINGS SHALL HAVE A COMMON DESIGN, THAT THEY ONLY SHALL GOVERN THE WORLD. PRIESTS AND RELIGIOUS SHALL BE HUNTED; THEY SHALL BE BUTCHERED IN A CRUEL MANNER. MANY SHALL ABANDON THE FAITH, AND GREAT WILL BE THE NUMBER OF PRIESTS AND RELIGIOUS WHO SHALL SEPARATE THEMSELVES FROM THE TRUE RELIGION; AMONG THESE THERE WILL BE FOUND LIKEWISE SEVERAL BISHOPS. LET THE POPE BE UPON HIS GUARD AGAINST MIRACLE-WORKERS, FOR THE TIME IS ARRIVED WHEN THE MOST ASTOUNDING PRODIGIES WILL TAKE PLACE ON THE EARTH AND IN THE AIR.

LUCIFER, WITH A VERY GREAT NUMBER OF DEMONS WILL BE UNCHAINED FROM HELL. BY DEGREES THEY SHALL ABOLISH THE FAITH, EVEN AMONG PERSONS CONSECRATED TO GOD. THEY SHALL BLIND THEM IN SUCH A MANNER THAT, WITHOUT VERY SPECIAL GRACES, THESE PERSONS SHALL IMBIBE THE SPIRIT OF THOSE WICKED ANGELS. MANY RELIGIOUS HOUSES WILL ENTIRELY LOSE THE FAITH, AND SHALL BE THE CAUSE OF THE LOSS OF MANY PERSONS. IN THE MONASTERIES, THE FLOWERS OF THE CHURCH, WILL MOULD AND ROT. THE SUPERIORS OF RELIGIOUS COMMUNITIES SHOULD BE ALERT REGARDING THE ONES THEY TAKE INTO THE COMMUNITY, FOR THE DEVIL WILL USE ALL MALICE, TO BRING PERSONS INTO THE ORDERS WHO ARE ADDICTED TO SIN.

BAD PEOPLE WILL ABOUND UPON THE EARTH; AND THE SPIRIT OF DARKNESS SHALL SPREAD OVER THE EARTH A UNIVERSAL RELAXATION ABOUT EVERYTHING RELATING TO THE SERVICE OF GOD. SATAN SHALL HAVE VERY GREAT POWER OVER NATURE (GOD'S PUNISHMENT FOR THE CRIMES OF MEN); TEMPLES WILL BE ERECTED FOR THE WORSHIP OF THESE DEMONS. SOME PERSONS SHALL BE TRANSPORTED FROM ONE PLACE TO ANOTHER BY THESE WICKED SPIRITS, EVEN SOME PRIESTS, BECAUSE THESE WILL NOT BE ANIMATED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT OF THE GOSPEL, WHICH IS A SPIRIT OF HUMILITY, CHARITY, AND ZEAL FOR THE GLORY OF GOD.

SOME WILL MAKE THE DEAD RISE AND APPEAR AS HOLY PERSONS. THE SOULS OF THE DAMNED SHALL ALSO BE SUMMONED, AND SHALL APPEAR AS UNITED TO THEIR BODIES. (SUCH PERSONS, RESURRECTED THROUGH THE AGENCY OF DEMONS, SHALL ASSUME THE FIGURE OF HOLY PERSONS, WHO ARE KNOWN TO HAVE BEEN UPON EARTH, IN ORDER MORE EASILY TO DECEIVE THEM. THESE SELF-STYLED RESUSCITATED PERSONS SHALL BE NOTHING BUT DEMONS UNDER THEIR FORMS. IN THIS WAY THEY SHALL PREACH A GOSPEL CONTRARY TO THAT OF JESUS CHRIST, DENYING THE EXISTENCE OF HEAVEN.)

IN EVERY PLACE THERE SHALL BE SEEN EXTRAORDINARY PRODIGIES, BECAUSE THE TRUE FAITH HAS BEEN EXTINGUISHED, AND A PALE LIGHT SHINES IN THE WORLD.

MY SON'S VICAR SHALL HAVE MUCH TO SUFFER, BECAUSE FOR A TIME THE CHURCH SHALL BE EXPOSED TO VERY GREAT PERSECUTIONS. THIS SHALL BE THE TIME OF DARKNESS. THE CHURCH SHALL HAVE TO PASS THROUGH AN AWFUL CRISIS. FRANCE, ITALY, SPAIN AND ENGLAND SHALL HAVE CIVIL WAR. BLOOD SHALL FLOW THROUGH THE STREETS. FRENCH SHALL FIGHT FRENCH. ITALIANS AGAINST ITALIANS. AFTER THIS THERE WILL BE A FRIGHTFUL GENERAL WAR. FOR A TIME GOD SHALL NOT REMEMBER FRANCE, NOR ITALY (FOR TWO YEARS OR FOR ONE?), BECAUSE THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST IS NO MORE UNDERSTOOD. THE HOLY FATHER WILL SUFFER MUCH. I WILL BE WITH HIM TO THE END TO RECEIVE HIS SACRIFICE. THE WICKED SHALL MANY TIMES ATTEMPT HIS LIFE.

NATURE DEMANDS VENGEANCE AGAINST MEN, AND SHE TREMBLES WITH FRIGHT IN EXPECTATION OF WHAT WILL BEFALL THE EARTH SULLIED WITH CRIMES. TREMBLE, O EARTH! AND TREMBLE YOU ALSO WHO MAKE PROFESSION OF SERVING JESUS CHRIST, BUT INWARDLY WORSHIP YOURSELVES, BECAUSE GOD HAS DELIVERED YOU TO HIS ENEMIES, BECAUSE CORRUPTION IS IN HOLY PLACES.

IN THE YEAR 1865 THE ABOMINATION SHALL BE SEEN IN HOLY PLACES, IN CONVENTS, AND THEN THE DEMON SHALL MAKE HIMSELF AS THE KING OF HEARTS. IT WILL BE ABOUT THAT TIME THAT ANTICHRIST SHALL BE BORN. AT HIS BIRTH SHE SHALL VOMIT BLASPHEMIES. HE SHALL HAVE TEETH; IN A WORD, HE SHALL BE LIKE AN INCARNATE DEMON; HE SHALL UTTER FRIGHTFUL SCREAMS; HE SHALL HAVE BROTHERS, WHO THOUGH NOT INCARNATE DEMONS LIKE HIM, SHALL NEVERTHELESS BE CHILDREN OF INIQUITY. AT THE AGE OF TWELVE YEARS THEY SHALL HAVE BECOME REMARKABLE FOR VALIANT VICTORIES, WHICH THEY SHALL ACHIEVE; VERY SOON EACH OF THEM WILL BE AT THE HEAD OF ARMIES. PARIS SHALL BE BURNED, AND MARSEILLES SHALL BE SUBMERGED; MANY GREAT CITIES SHALL BE SHATTERED AND SWALLOWED UP BY EARTHQUAKES. THE POPULACE WILL BELIEVE THAT EVERYTHING IS LOST, WILL SEE NOTHING BUT MURDER, AND WILL HEAR ONLY THE CLANG OF ARMS AND SACRILEGIOUS BLASPHEMIES.

I ADDRESS A PRESSING APPEAL THE EARTH. I CALL UPON THE TRUE DISCIPLES OF THE LIVING GOD, WHO REIGNS IN THE HEAVENS; I CALL UPON THE IMITATORS OF CHRIST MADE MAN, THE ONLY TRUE SAVIOR OF MANKIND; I CALL UPON MY CHILDREN, THOSE WHO ARE TRULY DEVOTED TO ME, THOSE WHO HAVE OFFERED THEMSELVES TO ME THAT I MAY LEAD THEM TO MY SON, THOSE WHOM I CARRY AS IT WERE IN MY ARMS, THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN ANIMATED BY MY SPIRIT. FINALLY, I CALL ON THE APOSTLES OF THESE LAST DAYS, THESE FAITHFUL DISCIPLES OF JESUS CHRIST, WHO HAVE LIVED DESPISING THE WORLD AND THEMSELVES, IN POVERTY AND HUMILITY, IN CONTEMPT AND IN SILENCE, SUFFERING AND UNKNOWN TO THE WORLD. GO YE FORTH AND MANIFEST YOURSELVES AS MY DARLING CHILDREN; I AM WITH YOU AND WITHIN YOU, SO THAT YOUR FAITH MAY BE THE LIGHT WHICH ILLUMINES YOU IN THESE UNHAPPY DAYS, AND THAT YOUR ZEAL MAY MAKE YOU LONG FOR THE GLORY AND HONOR OF THE MOST HIGH. FIGHT, YE CHILDREN OF LIGHT; COMBAT, YE SMALL BAND THAT CAN SEE, FOR THIS IS THE TIME OF TIMES, THE END OF ENDS.

THE SEASONS OF THE YEAR WILL CHANGE, THE EARTH WILL PRODUCE ONLY BAD FRUITS, THE STARS WILL DEPART FROM THEIR REGULAR COURSE, AND THE MOON WILL GIVE ONLY A WEAK, REDDISH LIGHT. WATER AND FIRE IN THE INTERIOR OF THE EARTH WILL RAGE VIOLENTLY AND CAUSE TERRIBLE EARTHQUAKES, WHEREBY MOUNTAINS AND CITIES WILL SINK INTO THE DEPTHS. EARTHQUAKES WILL ALSO DEVOUR WHOLE COUNTRIES. TOGETHER WITH THE ANTICHRIST THE DEMONS WILL WORK GREAT FALSE MIRACLES ON EARTH AND IN THE AIR. VOICES WILL BE HEARD IN THE AIR. THEN MEN WILL DESERT RELIGION AND BECOME WORSE AND WORSE. MEN WILL LET THEMSELVES BE DECEIVED BECAUSE THEY REFUSED TO ADORE THE REAL CHRIST WHO LIVES BODILY AMONGST THEM. WOE TO THE INHABITANTS OF THE EARTH! BLOODY WARS, FAMINES, PESTILENCE AND CONTAGIOUS DISEASES WILL DEVELOP. TERRIBLE RAIN AND HAIL WILL COME WITH ANIMALS FALLING FROM THE HEAVENS, THUNDER AND LIGHTNING BURNING DOWN ENTIRE CITIES. THE WHOLE UNIVERSE WILL BE GRIPPED BY FEAR. FINALLY THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED AND FAITH ALONE WILL GIVE LIGHT.

A CERTAIN PRECURSOR OF ANTICHRIST, TOGETHER WITH HIS FOLLOWERS FROM MANY NATIONS, WILL FIGHT THE REAL CHRIST, THE ONLY SAVIOR OF THE WORLD. HE WILL ENDEAVOR TO ELIMINATE THE ADORATION OF GOD IN ORDER TO BE CONSIDERED AS GOD HIMSELF. MUCH BLOOD WILL FLOW. THEN THE EARTH WILL BE VISITED BY ALL KINDS OF BLOWS, FROM CONSTANT WARS UNTIL THE LAST WAR, WHICH FINALLY WILL BE MADE BY THE TEN KINGS OF THE ANTICHRIST.

DURING THE TIME OF THE ARRIVAL OF ANTICHRIST, THE GOSPEL WILL BE PREACHED EVERYWHERE, AND ALL PEOPLES AND NATIONS WILL THEN RECOGNIZE THE TRUTH.

ROME WILL LOSE THE FAITH AND BECOME THE SEAT OF ANTICHRIST. YET THE HEATHEN ROME WILL DISAPPEAR. SEE, HERE IS THE BEAST WITH ITS SUBJECTS THAT CLAIMS TO BE THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD. PROUDLY IT RISES IN THE AIR TO GO STRAIGHT TO HEAVEN, BUT IT WILL BE STRANGLED BY THE ARCHANGEL MICHAEL AND CAST DOWN. AND THE EARTH, WHICH FOR THE PAST THREE DAYS WAS IN CONTINUOS CONVULSIONS, OPENS HER FIERY JAWS AND SWALLOWS HIM WITH ALL HIS COHORTS FOREVER INTO ITS HELLISH ABYSS. EVENTUALLY WILL WATER AND FIRE CLEANSE THE EARTH AND THE WORKS OF HUMAN PRIDE WILL BE DESTROYED AND ALL WILL BE RENEWED. THEN WILL ALL SERVE GOD AND GLORIFY HIM.

THE JUST WILL HAVE MUCH TO SUFFER; THEIR PRAYERS, WORKS OF PENANCE AND TEARS WILL ASCEND TO HEAVEN. ALL OF GOD'S PEOPLE WILL CRY FOR FORGIVENESS AND GRACE AND BEG MY HELP AND INTERCESSION. THEN JESUS CHRIST WILL COMMAND HIS ANGELS, BY A SPECIAL ACT OF HIS JUSTICE AND MERCY, TO DELIVER ALL HIS ENEMIES TO DEATH. THEN SUDDENLY ALL PERSECUTORS OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST AND ALL EVIL DOERS WILL PERISH, AND REST AND PEACE BETWEEN GOD AND MAN WILL APPEAR. JESUS CHRIST WILL BE SERVED, ADORED AND GLORIFIED. LOVE OF NEIGHBOR WILL BEGIN TO FLOURISH ALL OVER. THE NEW KINGS WILL BE ON THE RIGHT HAND OF THE CHURCH WHICH WILL GROW STRONG, AND WHICH WILL BE HUMBLE, PIOUS, POOR, ZEALOUS AND FOLLOWERS OF ALL THE VIRTUES. ALL OVER, THE GOSPEL WILL NOW BE PREACHED, PEOPLE WILL MAKE GREAT PROGRESS IN FAITH; THERE WILL BE UNITY AMONGST THE LABORERS OF JESUS CHRIST, AND PEOPLE WILL LIVE IN THE FEAR OF GOD.

BEHOLD THE REIGN OF THE TEN KINGS! WOE TO THE INHABITANTS OF THE EARTH; THERE SHALL BE SANGUINARY WARS, AND FAMINE, AND PLAGUES, AND CONTAGIOUS MALADIES; THERE SHALL BE SHOWERS OF A FRIGHTFUL HAIL OF ANIMALS; THUNDER SHALL SHAKE ENTIRE CITIES; EARTHQUAKES WHICH SHALL SWALLOW UP SOME COUNTRIES; VOICES SHALL BE HEARD N THE AIR; MEN (IN DESPAIR) SHALL KNOCK THEIR HEADS AGAINST THE WALLS; THEY SHALL CALL ON DEATH; AND DEATH SHALL BE THEIR TORMENT; BLOOD SHALL FLOW FROM EVERY SIDE. WHO SHALL BE ABLE TO OVERCOME (ALL THESE EVILS)? FIRE SHALL RAIN FROM HEAVEN AND SHALL DESTROY THREE CITIES. THE WHOLE WORLD SHALL STRUCK WITH TERROR, AND MANY WILL ALLOW THEMSELVES TO BE SEDUCED, BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT BELIEVED THE TRUE CHRIST LIVING AMONG THEM. THE SUN BECOMES DARK. FAITH ONLY SHALL SURVIVE SO THE TIME! THE ABYSS OPENS BEHOLD THE KING OF KINGS OF DARKNESS! BEHOLD THE BEAST WITH HIS SUBJECTS!....."

FATHER CESTAC'S PRAYER

AUGUST QUEEN OF HEAVEN, HEAVENLY SOVEREIGN OF THE ANGELS, THOU WHO FROM THE BEGINNING RECEIVED FROM GOD THE POWER AND THE MISSION TO CRUSH THE HEAD OF SATAN, WE HUMBLY BESEECH THEE TO SEND THY HOLY LEGIONS, SO THAT UNDER THY COMMAND AND BY THY POWER, THEY MAY PERSUE THE DEVILS AND COMBAT THEM EVERYWHERE, RESTRAIN THEIR AUDACITY AND DRIVE THEM BACK INTO THE ABYSS. WHO IS LIKE UNTO GOD? O GOOD AND TENDER MOTHER, THOU SHALT ALWAYS BE OUR LOVE AND OUR HOPE! O DIVINE MOTHER, SEND THY HOLY ANGELS TO DEFEND ME AND DRIVE FAR FROM ME THE CRUEL ENEMY. HOLY ANGELS AND ARCHANGELS, DEFEND US AND GUARD US. AMEN.

REMEMBER, O MOTHER OF LA SALETTE, THE TEARS FOR ME THOU ONCE DIDST SHED ON CALVARY; AND DOWN LIFE'S RUGGED WAYS, AND DOWN THE YEARS, RECALL HOW THOU DIDST SHIELD ME TENDERLY, WITH PLEAS MATERNAL THEY SON'S HAND OFT STAYED, BUT JUSTLY RAISED TO SMITE…NOW AFTER THIS, ALL THIS, WILT THOU WITHSTAND MY LOWLY PRAYER, FORSAKE ME IN MY PLIGHT? I HASTEN THEN, BY SUCH GLAD PROSPECT CHEERED, TO CAST MYSELF HERE AT THY FEET, YOUR UNFAITHFUL, INGRATE THOUGH I AM. ENDEARED TO ME SHALT THOU BE THAN ALL TREASURES MORE, O GLORIOUS RECONCILER OF LA SALETTE: OH! THIS, MY PLEDGE, MAY NEVER I FORGET! AMEN.

[ec2kadm]

Tom Atkinson
Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 04:53 pm
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To claim that Mary was divine or, ( a descpicable term) co-redemptix is BLASPHEMY.

There is only one Saviour of our souls, only one Christ, only one Messiah, and only one way to the Father: Jesus.

What foolishness! Where in Holy Scripture does it say Mary was divine or that there would be two Messiahs?

Rich is right. We do a bad job of explaining that when we pray to Mary or any other non-divine saint, we are asking them to intercede to God, not to answer prayers; something only God can do.

Is this a scam foisted on us by some militant, radical feminist group.


Christina (Chrissy)
Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 12:59 am
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Tom, perhaps you should educate yourself on the meaning of Mary as Co-Redemptrix before you call it 'blashemy.' Here is a great article for you to read. May Jesus give you the graces to understand.
http://www.catholic-pages.com/dir/link.asp?ref=16632


Tom Atkinson
Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 11:00 am
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Chrissy,

It appears that you and I are going to agree on very little. As far as EDUCATING myself to the meaning of words, my degrees are in English and journalism and I have made my living by understanding the meaning of the written word. In the English language, Co-Redemptrix literally means another redeemer. If you or others have assigned other meanings or connotations to the term, then it is just another corruption of the language. If you believe that we have two redeemers and you are preaching such, you are guilty of blasphemy.

From the website: "MARY magnifies her Son's glory by letting it shine forth resplendently through her." A mortal can not magnify the glory of God. Father Vincent's article is nebulous, contradictory and non sequitor. Quoting, "MARY's share in GOD's redemptive plan take away from JESUS' unique role as Redeemer." The words 'share' and 'unique' are obviously contradictory in this context.

Thank you for requesting graces from Jesus for me.
Before I read the Bible or articles relating to my salvation, I pray for mental guidance. God has answered my prayers and, as a result, I know that some things in the Bible are allegory and have learned not to believe everything written by man.

I have my doubts about the origin and meaning of the prefix co-, but I can find out.

Chrissy, how many Redeemers have there been?


Linda
Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 11:48 am
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The Catholic Church’s use of the title “Co-redemptrix” as applied to the Mother of Jesus, in no sense places Mary on a level of equality with Jesus Christ, the Divine Redeemer. There is an infinite difference between the divine person of Jesus Christ and the human person, Mary. Rather, papal teaching has used the title
Co-redemptrix” to refer to the unique participation of the Mother of Jesus with and under her divine son in the work of human redemption.

The term “co-redemptrix” is properly translated “the woman with the redeemer” or more literally “she who buys back with [the redeemer].” The prefix “co” comes from the Latin term “cum” which means “with” and not “equal to.” Co-redemptrix therefore as applied to Mary refers to her exceptional cooperation with and under her divine son Jesus Christ, in the redemption of the human family, as manifested in Christian Scripture.

With Mary’s free and active “fiat” to the invitation of the angel Gabriel to become the mother of Jesus, “Be it done unto me according to your word” (Lk. 1:38), she uniquely cooperated with the work of redemption by giving the divine Redeemer his body, which was the very instrument of human redemption. “We have been sanctified by the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all” (Heb. 10:10), and the body of Jesus Christ is given to him through the free, active, and unique cooperation of the Virgin Mary. By virtue of giving flesh to the “Word made flesh” (Jn. 1:14), who in turn redeems humanity, the Virgin of Nazareth uniquely merits the title Co-redemptrix. In the words of the late Mother Teresa of Calcutta, “Of course Mary is the Co-redemptrix — she gave Jesus his body, and his body is what saved us.” [1]

The New Testament prophecy of Simeon in the temple also reveals the suffering, co-redemptive mission of Mary in direct union with her Redeemer son in their one unified work of redemption:

“Simeon blessed them, and said to Mary, his mother, ‘Behold, this child is set for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and will be a sign of contradiction, and a sword shall pierce through your own soul, too” (Lk. 2:34-35).

But the climax of Mary’s role as Co-redemptrix under her divine son takes place at the foot of the Cross, where the total suffering of the mother’s heart is obediently united to the suffering of the Son’s heart in fulfillment of the Father’s plan of redemption (cf. Gal. 4:4). As the fruit of this redemptive suffering, Mary is given by the crucified Savior as the spiritual mother of all peoples,: “Woman, behold your son!’ Then he said to the dis-ciple, ‘behold, your mother!” (Jn. 19:27).
Before the word blashemy is thrown around, please let us know the true meaning of what the Catholic Church teaches!!


Tom Atkinson
Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 12:30 pm
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Hello Linda,

Accepting the term Co-Redemptrix to mean Woman with the Redeemer still leads the reader (without lengthy explanation) to infer that some members of the Church believe Mary to be a part of a Redeemer duo. I have heard this proposed and it is heresy and blasphemy. Why is St. Joseph not known as the co-redeemer (the man with the Redeemer)? What about the disciples?

If a term requires very lengthy explanations, it is a bad use of language.

Given the greatness of the divine Redeemer, Jesus Christ, no mortal should be co- anything with Him. There is only one Redeemer.


Lawrence Willette (Deaconlawrence)
Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 06:06 pm
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Linda, you are right on in your teaching regarding Mary as co redemptrix. For those who have Faith no explanation is necessary. For those who do not have faith there is no explanation.


Tom
Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 07:28 pm
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>For those who have Faith no explanation is necessary. For those who do not have faith there is no explanation.<

Right you are, Deacon. The trouble can arise in what exactly you have faith.


Patricia Rose
Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 09:52 pm
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Mother Mary when greeted by the angel was called "Hail Mary FULL OF GRACE" corrected me if I'm wrong but dosn't that mean full of knowledge and gifts from God. So how many other humans born on earth have been FULL OF GRACE. Also what about the assumption. Mother Mary was assumed body and soul. Correct. I think that God had special plans for Mother Mary before she was Immaculated conceieve. If she had full of Grace of God, then that would lead me to belive she must have know the Fathers will. Also If mystics and saints today and of the past have an intimate relation with God the Father then don't you think that maybe She would have had a special relationship with Him also. "Let it be done to me according to thy
will." Well my brothers and sister If I was giving that opertunity of having all the knowledge of Gods Graces sin would not be a part of my being. I just don't understand how anyone can be catholic and walk the passion of Christ and not understand the Mother of God. She was a living tabinacal of Christ. If John the Baptist flipped in his mothers womb just in the presents of Mother Mary carring Christ, I ask what do you think Mother Mary was going through. I think She is the most Holy treasured human Mother and It was her who brought me to Christ. And don't be fooled, it will be Mother Mary that will bring all to Christ, either while we live on earth or when we enter into the next state of life.
Pray for us Mother Mary!
God Bless
Patricia Rose