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bradman Posted: Dec 16 2005, 04:08 PM 

 Is there any prayer really never known to fail? How do you know when tyou really get an answer?

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PeterUK Posted: Dec 16 2005, 09:33 PM 

 Hi Bradman,
You ask two questions
1 Is there any prayer really never known to fail? How would you know that your prayers have failed. Try talking to the Lord as you would a prayer. God Does not necessarily give us what we want but what we need. Sometimes we are lucky and they are similar if not the same. However in time you will be able to look back and see what you receive was the best thing for you.

2 How do you know when you really get an answer? Have you ever tried to talk to God and give him a chance to answer, try meditating, there are times when it is obvious that you are getting what you have asked for, there are other times, when you get something else and you then have to think was this better than what I wanted

Brad I ask God to show you how to pray, how to listen to him, to give Him a chance to answer and to realise when he does Amen

I wish you luck may the peace of Christ be with you God Bless


Peter. 

bradman Posted: Dec 17 2005, 03:25 PM 

 In general, I try to do what is expected of me according to the Catholic Church, but I think I rely too much on prayer with too little outcome.
I appreciate your response and I do look for the outcome of prayer but I can't see the outcome. All I know for certain is that I don't get answers; what I think I am getting is a "maybe" or a not now. But it amounts to wait or keep looking. In a sense, there is something I very definitely want, but, I am willing to take a "no" answer, too, or even the answer that "this is not good for you, here is why."
I recently got "fed up" with an issue that I was praying for an answer to. No sooner did I feel this way then it seemed like I was getting some sort of "yes" or "maybe" answer. In other words I got over it, but then the issue was reopened. Now, once again, I feel like I am being "strung along." I am posting this in this forum because few people I know can relate to the whether there is efficacy to prayer, even members of my family.
I have tried meditating as you suggest; in fact, I try to talk to Christ all the time when I'm alone. What I am probably doing is just addressing my subconscious. I'm getting to the point where I think that all one can really do in prayer is ask that one not encounter too much pain in life and not expect anything. I'm getting tired of having expectations that my prayer will be answered and getting nothing; I'd rather have no expectations. Instead, it may just be that the outcome is the result of chance or personal achievement.
This is an example of one of my past prayer failures. After the death of my grandmother (who gave me my expectation of answered prayer- and who seemed to be able to effect outcomes by prayer), I spent a year praying for my brother that he would just entertain the idea of going to rehab, but he won't. Instead, he actually prefers to die despite the fact that his girlfriend loves him and that my parents would pay the expenses.
Yeah I know, Saint Monica prayed for Augustin for 30 years, ..... but life has an expiration date, too; I'm getting old and tired. I recently asked a priest what the point to life is; he rattled off the Baltimore Catechism explanation. I don't buy it; but I can't challenge it either because it seems like a free assertion.
I'm near to giving up on it, but I'm afraid I'm going to get some big punishment from God. This is no joke; I'm not kidding.


PeterUK Posted: Dec 17 2005, 10:09 PM 

 Hi Bradman,

You are in my thoughts and prayers, and I ask God to show you the way, to be patient, to give him a chance and to listen to what he is telling you.

QUOTE 
All I know for certain is that I don't get answers;
How can you be sure you are not getting the answers, Yes it often appears when it feels like we are treading through treacle and things dont get any better, we do not get the answers, Have you read footprints in the sand. Please try and put your trust in God.

From what you have written I wonder whether you Give God a chance, you are trying too hard or so busy looking for a response you may be missing the subtle response. QUOTE 
"I recently got "fed up" with an issue that I was praying for an answer to. No sooner did  I feel this way then it seemed like I was getting some sort of "yes" or "maybe" answer."
This sounds like you were trying to hard and when you stopped trying so hard you found things easier.

QUOTE 
What I am probably doing is just addressing my subconscious. 
Or is it your soul or is it God. Have faith in God and let him help you

QUOTE 
all one can really do in prayer is ask that one not encounter too much pain in life and not expect anything. 
Did Jesus ask for any more. In todays world with the internet etc we expect instant answers. We live in a society of I want it now. Our suffering is small compared to that of Jesus carrying his cross. We are told by the theolgians that we need to suffer to get close to God.

QUOTE 
I spent a year praying for my brother that he would just entertain the idea of going to rehab, but he won't. Instead, he actually prefers to die despite the fact that his girlfriend loves him and that my parents would pay the expenses. 
This is sad and we ask God to help him and all thiose around him, to realise that he is loved and want him to beet the addiction. But God gave us free will, and rightly or wriongly your brother has made use of that free will.

QUOTE 
life has an expiration date, too; I'm getting old and tired. I recently asked a priest what the point to life is; 
Life is difficult and the sooner we accept that the easier it is for us to deal with. Life is also the most sacred gift given by God. However there are numerous occasions in life when we are called upon to have faith, even if at times it is blind faith and Trust in God. We will get our reward in heaven

QUOTE 
I'm near to giving up on it, but I'm afraid I'm going to get some big punishment from God. This is no joke; I'm not kidding.
God is a loving God and they say never gives us more than we can handle by being given these hardships we are strengthened and grow closer to God.Remember God loves you and values you. So please dont Give up. I am sure it is not only God that loves and values you.

There are times in life when we just question and try and get the answer to the questions Why? the harder we try the less it seems that we can get an answer. It is at these times that God is carrying us. You will probably find that the majority of people who read this have been there. I see you have empathised with others who have posted items in this forum. It is when you accept that you may not get the answers and let go even to the point of blind faith that life eases a bit.

I pray that you find my thoughts helpful and that you find peace, faith and trust in God. It would be great to meet you in chat.

May God bless, watch over and support you and your family.

Peter
 

Deacon_Anthony Posted: Dec 17 2005, 10:11 PM 

 This is how I have explained how God answers, or we percieve, He doesn't answer prayer in my adult ed class. Hope it helps some:

So what does it mean when we don't get what we ask for in prayer? If you want to know how prayer works the first thing you need to do is get a good, deep appreciation of how friendship works. A true friend always wants to bring about the desires of the one he loves. So a real friend always wishes that the one he loves gets the “good” he should get. So it’s out of love that God generously answers our prayers. God has called us to friendship with him by making us in his image and likeness.

This privilege of divine friendship also explains why some things we ask for in prayer are not given to us. For example, many times we want things that we think are good for us but in reality aren’t. Sometimes we as for thing without really giving them enough thought or without considering what the outcome might be. Sometimes it can be impossible for us to see how an answered prayer may affect our lives, maybe, in the long run, the answer we want would not be good for us, it could affect our whole life adversely. As a good friend, God does not grant those prayer requests that are apparent goods, but only those that are truly good for us. Since God is divine He knows what is good for us when we are not sure.

In order for a good friendship to grow we have to give energetic effort, generous self-giving, and regular communication. The same thing is true fir prayer. Sometimes requests are not granted because we aren’t really passionate about it. If we get lukewarm in the way we prayer or don’t pay attention we can break the momentum that takes our prayer where it needs to go. Friends do not try to rush or hurry their friends. And inconsistency is a great enemy of friendship.

On the other hand if we are persistent, if we persevere, and we’re patient we get the spiritual fuel we need to have our prayer answered in God's good time.

Also, the closer we are to our friend, and the more we are attentive and conformed to him, the easier it is to receive what we ask from that friend. In the life of faith, when we fail to approach God in heartfelt contemplation, with devout affection, and with a humble but firm intention, we should not be surprised if our request goes unanswered. It is our nearness and intimacy with God that dispose the fitting way that God fulfills the desires we place before him.

So whenever we turn away from our friends for whatever reason we forfeit any expectation that they will fulfill our requests. That turning away from God which is sin produces a similar effect in our prayer life.

But there is also a very positive reason why at times God says No to what we ask. We've had the experience of refusing something to a friend because we know that it will be harmful to him or her. We might also refuse because our experience and insight tell us that something opposite to the request would be even more helpful than what he or she is asking. Similarly, sometimes God elects not to grant the petition of those he especially loves in order to provide his friends with something all the more beneficial for their happiness and holiness. It may be something that we have never thought of... something we never thought possible. This is what led St. Augustine to write, "The Lord often does not grant what we desire so that he may give us what we desire even more."

Our ability to be attentive and helpful to our friends brings about good effects that go far beyond the requests we make. Friendship perfects, enriches, and fulfills us. The same is true of prayer. The Cloud of Unknowing observes how prayer seems to transfigure people even physically, so that even though they may not be "favored by nature,"
prayer makes them appear changed and lovely to behold.

St. John Vianney explains how prayer expands our small hearts, stretching them and making them capable of loving God. And those who knew St. Elizabeth of Hungary testify that they saw "her face shining marvelously and light coming from her eyes like the rays of the sun" when Elizabeth came from prayer. Those of us who are God's friends can expect to experience these same wonderful graces in our prayer.

 
bradman Posted: Dec 20 2005, 01:48 PM 
 
So what does it mean when we don't get what we ask for in prayer? If you want to know how prayer works the first thing you need to do is get a good, deep appreciation of how friendship works. A true friend always wants to bring about the desires of the one he loves. So a real friend always wishes that the one he loves gets the “good” he should get. So it’s out of love that God generously answers our prayers. God has called us to friendship with him by making us in his image and likeness.>

This sounds like a free assertion that cannot be proven, one way or another.



This is true of everything we ask for; given that logic, why ask for anything? It is really just a waste of time and creates false expectations.




Maybe that is true , or maybe the answer is just a coincidental outcome.




We are all sinners to some degree or another; if sin blocked the outcome to prayer, then there would never be conversions and no prayers would be answered.



Maybe this is true. I acknowledge that Augustin is a Doctor of the Church, but some of the things he wrote are not entirely accurate, too. Also, I might mention that by his own admision, he was a sinner. Did God answer his prayers? Asking God to motivate an alcoholic to accept help wouldn't have a harmful outcome, would it? Maybe God is punishing others because of my past sins by not answering me.

prayer makes them appear changed and lovely to behold.

St. John Vianney explains how prayer expands our small hearts, stretching them and making them capable of loving God. And those who knew St. Elizabeth of Hungary testify that they saw "her face shining marvelously and light coming from her eyes like the rays of the sun" when Elizabeth came from prayer. Those of us who are God's friends can expect to experience these same wonderful graces in our prayer.>

All this mystical suff is not quantifiable; outcomes are. I'll give prayer some more time, but after years of it, I'm about to give up.

Despite my disagreement/dissatisfaction with your answers, thank you for answering.

child of God   Posted: Apr 20 2006, 12:47 AM 

 Hey there Bradman I am across the sea from you and would like to ask you some rhetorical questions. do you read the bible do you really belive that what it says is true? it is possible for your prayers to come true? Yes definetly who do you pray with? Friends? family? angles? saints? alone? did not Jesus Himself say when there are two of you joined in my name I am there so
Courage
He is Risen
BuT do you really belive it!?
What state is your soul in?? are you in a state of Grace or mortal Sin?

Sin seperates us from Jesus in the holy sacrament of the eucharist come to Him He is waiting for you!
Come and find out about the Neo catucumenat


To me (and yes I have lived my life as a cynical person who needed a great abundance of miracles but have now witnessed and seen a great upheaval because I was willing to begin to sacrifice small things
I am in the neocatechumenate way and seriously suggest that you find out for your self what it is Ican tell you but I think you need to see for yourself
God Bless
and Keep praying
Gods child

--------------------
May His everlasting love burn within you shining out through your face illuminating those in the darkest night and may you become the salt AND THE LIGHT that all who see you say Glory Glory Glory, Glory be to HIM WHO IS. WAS. and ALWAYS WILL BE